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 Post subject: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Tue, 06 Jul 3:39 pm 
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http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/gro ... 8606218216 " Johnny Rotten you ain’t no human being if u play the Israeli fascist regime"

John Lydon & PIL plan to play in Tel Aviv, Israel on August 31st - //www.johnlydon.com/jlnews.html

That is, unless enough of you good people out there encourage them not to, perhaps via something demonstrably visible, both inside & outside of their Leeds Academy gig, Friday 23rd July...

JL & PIL could of course join the heroic list of refuseniks which now include Elvis Costello, Carlos Santana, Gil Scott-Heron, The Pixies, The Klaxons, Gorillaz Sound System etc

And we can always vote with our feet & wallets next time, if they don't listen !


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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Tue, 06 Jul 9:35 pm 
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Not sure yer average israeli PiL fan is gonna be pro government. I know for a fact there are a bunch of decent people over there who just wanna see decent live music in their country but can't. They're not the ones who murder children in Gaza are they? I cant see Lydon going over there and saying "Fuck the Palestinians".
By boycotting the country you are penalising ordinary people, not the government, ironically a government which, albeit on a deadly scale, constantly penalises ordinary palestinians for the actions of their government.


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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Tue, 06 Jul 10:04 pm 
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Completely ridiculous to

1) try to ban people from working in what is a civilised country who's government and army is engaged in illegal and immoral military activity (erm, ring any bells?)

2) expect any kind of display of moral or political conviction from John Lydon, who to be fair has never claimed to have any.


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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Tue, 06 Jul 10:06 pm 
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P.S. I am very much on the Palestinian side of the argument. I'm not sure that would stop me working in Israel though, because I don't see a correlation between me doing that or - as Trev says - Israeli punters, and the war. Convince me otherwise by all means.


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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Tue, 06 Jul 10:08 pm 
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P.S. maybe he'll get onstage and make a huge speech about freeing palestine. Doubt it, mind...


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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Tue, 06 Jul 11:03 pm 
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LeedsPSC wrote:
Ridiculous sub-sixth-form gibberish about one of the world's most tragic and complex conflicts


Right on son, let's smash up a Starbucks together then get a graduate job with Price Waterhouse Coopers.

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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Tue, 06 Jul 11:16 pm 
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Why shouldn't the citizens of Israel get to see the bands they want to? Judging individuals by the actions of their government isn't clever. After all, we have the Iraq war hanging over our collective heads. Why not demonise him for playing the USA too?

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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Tue, 06 Jul 11:40 pm 
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cavie wrote:
LeedsPSC wrote:
Ridiculous sub-sixth-form gibberish about one of the world's most tragic and complex conflicts


Right on son, let's smash up a Starbucks together then get a graduate job with Price Waterhouse Coopers.


wight on!

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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Wed, 07 Jul 7:42 am 
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performingchimp wrote:
P.S. maybe he'll get onstage and make a huge speech about freeing palestine. Doubt it, mind...


or about butter?


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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Wed, 07 Jul 7:54 am 
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Do you also extend that to Israeli musicians? Perhaps we shouldn't be allowed to watch Matisyahu or the drummer from Soul Coughing? Seriously, you've got a country crippled by paranoia and skittishness (born out of variable degrees of justification, from none to significant dependent on where you sit on the political fence). But whatever one's views I'm not sure cultural ostracising is really the best way of weaning them off this mindset.


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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Wed, 07 Jul 9:11 am 
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If you protest Johnny Rotten he's more likely to do it than if you don't.

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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Wed, 07 Jul 9:15 am 
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bongobenny wrote:
If you protest Johnny Rotten he's more likely to do it than if you don't.


he's so rebellious and shocking. i care about this about as much as i care baout that kong debate. but its nice to grumble.


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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Wed, 07 Jul 11:00 am 
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I just think it's pointless. If I was playing in Israel and some trumped up lefty plackard wavers turned up it would make absolutely no difference at all to my plan to play the gig. What a fruitless crusade.

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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Wed, 07 Jul 11:58 am 
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'Sub sixth form gibberish...' actually the conflict is not complex at all, it is quite simple. Israeli is breaking international law, it has been for decades, and that is not complicated at all.

He shouldn't play in my view. And of course it's the moral position of those who agree with following international law to present that position to mr Lydon.

The previous person who seems to think that plackard wavers are insignificant clearly has no concept of political action or any understanding of political history.


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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Wed, 07 Jul 12:23 pm 
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Matthewj wrote:
'Sub sixth form gibberish...' actually the conflict is not complex at all, it is quite simple. Israeli is breaking international law, it has been for decades, and that is not complicated at all.


Israeli? Don't let Freud do your typing.


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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Wed, 07 Jul 12:25 pm 
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I think it's quite obvious that if Mr Rotten doesn't play this rock show then the King of Israel (is that Jesus?) will stop being a meaniemouse.

CAPICHE??


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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Wed, 07 Jul 12:38 pm 
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I don't really know much about whats going on in Israel.
But i know some musicians that live in israel (when not on tour) and often play in Israel.

What has Lydon done wrong? if their is an audience for his music in Israel then why can't he play there?

Please explain.


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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Wed, 07 Jul 12:43 pm 
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joskins wrote:
...
What has Lydon done wrong? if their is an audience for his music in Israel then why can't he play there?

Please explain.


Nooooooo! What have you done?!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Wed, 07 Jul 12:54 pm 
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Matthewj wrote:
'Sub sixth form gibberish...' actually the conflict is not complex at all, it is quite simple. Israeli is breaking international law, it has been for decades, and that is not complicated at all.

He shouldn't play in my view. And of course it's the moral position of those who agree with following international law to present that position to mr Lydon.

The previous person who seems to think that plackard wavers are insignificant clearly has no concept of political action or any understanding of political history.



...neither do you. Are you aware of how many times Britain and the USA have flouted International Law, or did you not get past the introduction of Rogue States?

The majority of people on here are politically opposed to the political actions of Israel. I think what people are trying to point out is that this would be an empty protest, and would effectively trivialise the debate, misdirecting the focus towards an artist that has no vested interest in the conflict, and if successful wouldn't actually achieve anything in terms of changing the status quo or even shedding light on the injustices happening in Palestine.

It would be similar to the 'Rage for number 1!' campaign but on a much smaller and less significant scale, whereby those who participate get to feel like they've been part of something significant, but where nothing changes at all in the long term and the particular ruling elite involved (Israel in your case, large record companies in the other case) get to hegemonically reinforce their position because the campaign gives them publicity without them having to change a single thing regarding their operations.

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 Post subject: Re: Persuade Johny it'd be jolly rotten to perform in Israel
PostPosted: Wed, 07 Jul 12:58 pm 
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Ahhh ...
I See.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090104134342AAeq6mh

But was has Lydon done wrong?


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